Seminar 30/05/2007
I have not been to many of the masters' seminars, but I've benefited a lot from the ones that I've been to. I think it's a really good opportunity to get to know other's projects and interests, and also their styles, since I do not talk much to them personally. Having said so, I feel I am a completely different person when doing a public speech/performance. I guess the bottom line is my self-consciousness in fear of being unable getting the attention; and when on the stage where I am granted such focused attention, I do enjoy it -- though, only after a certain time of preparation.
Most people do have a lot to say and do have a body of research there, yet some do not realise the fact that it's only a 20-minute seminar, and only so much can be put in it. The only way is to work on the structure and practice before actually giving the seminar -- for that I am grateful of the help from Liyen, and the discussion we had helped to get my head around the whole research process too. So I guess it's true, as what Liyen's suggested, it's just telling stories and giving introductions. And I do agree, for that it helps the audience's understanding of your work and generate discussion. Often people are so immersed in their own research and put on this full-on in-depth lecture which is a good learning experience too, but hard for those who have not been researching in the same field to digest all information in 20 minutes.
So, here is the complete content of my seminar. I will have to look back to it and further my research soon. My apologies for not fully referencing the whole writing, etc.
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Greetings.
Today, I am going to give a general outlook of my interests in some specific areas of painting and the developments of which. Emphasis will be put on the development of abstract painting after the influence of minimalism.
Coming from a painting background, I am also aware that we live in an era of critical theory. As we know that the different aspects of painting have been looked at again and again closely; as a result, some artists tend to be more excited about using new media nowadays. In an art world dominated by critical theory and new forms that speak to that theory, what are the values of painting for the contemporary visual arts curriculum?
My research this year is based on a concern for painting. In this seminar I propose to give an introduction on some of the difficulties that painters have been dealing with, also, I will give a more in-depth overview of the works of Daniel Buren, to show how he carries his practices throughout the years.
Firstly, I would like to start with a quote by Donald Judd taken from the book "Specific Objects." He says that:
- - - - - - - - - - Slide1 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Three dimensions are real space. That gets rid of the problem of illusionism and of literal space, space in and around marks and colours - which is riddance of one of the salient and most objectionable relics of European art. The several limits of painting are no longer present.
Donald Judd
"Specific Objects," reprinted in Complete Writings: 1969-1975. Halifax: Press of the Nova Scotia College of Art and Design. New York: New York University Press, 1975. 184
"Specific Objects," reprinted in Complete Writings: 1969-1975. Halifax: Press of the Nova Scotia College of Art and Design. New York: New York University Press, 1975. 184
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What I find interesting is that Judd started his career as a painter, yet he points out one of the foremost limitations of painting – space; and suggests that sculpture (or other 3 dimensional art forms) conveys better. Surly anyone working within the field would have been aware of painting's limits; for example, its dimension, space, colour and representation. But is Judd's suggestion of moving away from painting the only way to progress a practice? Many artists who are aware of the limits of painting still work within the domain to try to push the boundaries. My interest is to take on the limitations and explore them in my way.
In the next slide, I will give some examples of works that work toward the same goal. To show that if Judd was right, or that he simply shows ignorance that there are also several limits to negotiate within painting.
- - - - - - - - - - Slide2 : Limits to Negotiate Within Painting- - - - - - - - - -
Here I have chosen 3 major limits of painting as I've found them to be within my research, though they might need some refining later on; and for each I have selected an example that negotiate with such limit.
1) Structure: (& Reduction. Surface, support, framing, dimension, space)
When we speak of the formal properties of a painting we think of a covered surface on a support that set within a frame. And what is set within the frame concerns perspectives, composition, thus dimension and space. The minimalist's approach to reduce these elements culminates in various endpoints, including monochrome and geometry.
-Jackson Pollock, Lavender Mist: Number 1, 1950-
This Jackson Pollock's action painting constructs a new kind of autonomy. The part-to-whole relationship and unity suggest a re-articulation of painting. The elements and aspects of Pollock's paintings are polarised rather than amalgamated. This construction of a new kind of autonomy provokes painting with questions less of its reduction than of its structure.
2) Technique: (Variation; use of different formal elements and tools)
In the history of painting, various techniques have been created to perfect representation (e.g. perspectives), or to introduce a different way of seeing (e.g. cubism). According to Hubert Damisch*1, technique is to be understood as both 'thought and invention.' The different strategies taken by various painters to explore the limits of painting contribute to the invention of numerous techniques.
-Claude Viallat and Daniel Dezeuze-
Here we have the knotting of Claude Viallat and the cutting of Daniel Dezeuze to show their different approaches to construct painting. As opposed to minimalist's industrial methods (which represent a counterimpulse toward the generalising of technique, and this counterimpulse coincides with a displacement away from the privilege of painting as a medium into an array of other spaces and mediums), the works here demonstrate that painting as a discipline remains capable of sustaining technique as a measure of its thought and invention.
3) Series: (Extension; Repetition; Fragmentation)
Serial practices elaborate decisive ways of thinking through the work's exposure. (If we look at each work in the series as an "instance" and it shows that anything we term a work has an identity that is already displace to, and by, the "instance" of the work’s exteriority in and as its essentially seriate dispersion, a dispersion that places its "medium" in question. and their implications for painting.)
Next I will present a movement that took place in the late 60s. Based on a concern for art, and painting being its primarily form, Buren teamed up with 3 of his contemporaries and formed the group BMPT.
- - - - - - - - - - Slide3: The Movement BMPT- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
+ 1966 – 1967
+ Initiated by 4 artistes: Daniel Buren, Olivier Mosset, Michel Parmentier, Niele Toroni.
Group BMPT tries to make "paintings as paintings" on the concepts of creation and painting. Each of the group member practices a repetitive gesture deprived of any artistic base and wants to supply only what the work presents.
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Example of the members' works:
- - - - - - - - - - Slide4 : Mosset & Parmentier - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Parmentier paints large horizontal bands delimited with the adhesive tape in order to remove any overflow of the brush.
What I find interesting is that Judd started his career as a painter, yet he points out one of the foremost limitations of painting – space; and suggests that sculpture (or other 3 dimensional art forms) conveys better. Surly anyone working within the field would have been aware of painting's limits; for example, its dimension, space, colour and representation. But is Judd's suggestion of moving away from painting the only way to progress a practice? Many artists who are aware of the limits of painting still work within the domain to try to push the boundaries. My interest is to take on the limitations and explore them in my way.
In the next slide, I will give some examples of works that work toward the same goal. To show that if Judd was right, or that he simply shows ignorance that there are also several limits to negotiate within painting.
- - - - - - - - - - Slide2 : Limits to Negotiate Within Painting- - - - - - - - - -
Here I have chosen 3 major limits of painting as I've found them to be within my research, though they might need some refining later on; and for each I have selected an example that negotiate with such limit.
1) Structure: (& Reduction. Surface, support, framing, dimension, space)
When we speak of the formal properties of a painting we think of a covered surface on a support that set within a frame. And what is set within the frame concerns perspectives, composition, thus dimension and space. The minimalist's approach to reduce these elements culminates in various endpoints, including monochrome and geometry.
-Jackson Pollock, Lavender Mist: Number 1, 1950-2) Technique: (Variation; use of different formal elements and tools)
In the history of painting, various techniques have been created to perfect representation (e.g. perspectives), or to introduce a different way of seeing (e.g. cubism). According to Hubert Damisch*1, technique is to be understood as both 'thought and invention.' The different strategies taken by various painters to explore the limits of painting contribute to the invention of numerous techniques.
-Claude Viallat and Daniel Dezeuze-Here we have the knotting of Claude Viallat and the cutting of Daniel Dezeuze to show their different approaches to construct painting. As opposed to minimalist's industrial methods (which represent a counterimpulse toward the generalising of technique, and this counterimpulse coincides with a displacement away from the privilege of painting as a medium into an array of other spaces and mediums), the works here demonstrate that painting as a discipline remains capable of sustaining technique as a measure of its thought and invention.
Serial practices elaborate decisive ways of thinking through the work's exposure. (If we look at each work in the series as an "instance" and it shows that anything we term a work has an identity that is already displace to, and by, the "instance" of the work’s exteriority in and as its essentially seriate dispersion, a dispersion that places its "medium" in question. and their implications for painting.)
-Polly Apfelbaum, Eclipse, velvet and dye, dimensions vary with installation, 1996-
There are a number of different ways to seriate a practice, here I have chosen a work by Polly Apfelbaum. It represents one piece in a series of variations in the display of the work or its architectural context. This implication of serial practices open further questions of the relation of the work to its structure, and thus ways of inquiring how, in light of its structural articulations, a work can be dispersed and not "reduced."
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Next I will present a movement that took place in the late 60s. Based on a concern for art, and painting being its primarily form, Buren teamed up with 3 of his contemporaries and formed the group BMPT.
- - - - - - - - - - Slide3: The Movement BMPT- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
+ 1966 – 1967
+ Initiated by 4 artistes: Daniel Buren, Olivier Mosset, Michel Parmentier, Niele Toroni.
Group BMPT tries to make "paintings as paintings" on the concepts of creation and painting. Each of the group member practices a repetitive gesture deprived of any artistic base and wants to supply only what the work presents.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Example of the members' works:
- - - - - - - - - - Slide4 : Mosset & Parmentier - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-Olivier Mosset. Untitled, 1966. Acrylic on canvas. Carré d'Art – Museé d'art contemporain de Nîmes-
Mosset repeats identical black circles on white surfaces.Parmentier paints large horizontal bands delimited with the adhesive tape in order to remove any overflow of the brush.
Both Mosset and Parmentier practice a repetitive gesture with a simple form that is void of any subjectivity.
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- - - - - - - - - - Slide5: Toroni - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-Niele Toroni at work. Les murs, un autre regard, installation Nice, 2005-
(left image)
-Daniel Buren. The Rotating Square In and Out of the Frame, 1989-
(right image)
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- - - - - - - - - - Slide5: Toroni - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-Niele Toroni at work. Les murs, un autre regard, installation Nice, 2005-Toroni uses the mark made by a brush of a particular width as the motif on the canvas with regular interval.
I would like to point out that each and every mark made by the same brush is unique. If we could refer this back to the point made on Serial Practice earlier, each and every mark thus presents an instance. And it's by repetition and through the display of the context that the whole practice is complete.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - Slide6: Stripes Paintings by Buren- - - - - - - - - -I would like to point out that each and every mark made by the same brush is unique. If we could refer this back to the point made on Serial Practice earlier, each and every mark thus presents an instance. And it's by repetition and through the display of the context that the whole practice is complete.
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(left image)
-Daniel Buren. The Rotating Square In and Out of the Frame, 1989-
(right image)
-Daniel Buren. The Missing Square, 1989-
One might argue the legitimacy of painting being the medium to question the making of art. Here I would like to put the emphasis on seeing how painting opens beyond itself by virtue of the limits that define it and onto a field it reveals as both relational and contingent, exposed to, and so capable of exposing, the institutional and cultural limits within which it claims its presence.
- - - - - - - - Slide7 Wall of Paintings by Buren - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-Daniel Buren. Murs de peintures, 1966–1977. Musée d'art moderne de la Ville de Paris -
(Flikr: Beair)
Buren's idea that "every act is a political one*2" applies here as a response to the minimalist’s requirement of maximum space in between the works. Here the paintings are hung in the style as if they were in the 19th century, and each work requires equal attention.
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- - - - - - - - Slide8: Accidental Buren - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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There is freedom in what Buren has done, and that enormous freedom comes from an utter understanding of the limits of painting. I see imposing limitations as a method of working, as opposed to not knowing them, and thus not dealing with them. For that the limitation is the condition for painting's connection with the world, so also for its critical force. (As Painting, 87)
The reason why I want to explore the genre of painting is that I see a positive relationship between critical theory and the practice of painting, and have witnessed painting's capacity to reconsider its own structure. Many artists like Buren have experimented painting within their own institutional and cultural contexts; and I believe within the contemporary context, there are issues to be explored.
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Notes
Buren uses vertical stripes in a uniform and repetitive way while leaving the same interval between the lines so as to create a perfect legibility.
In this slide we have 2 stripe paintings by Buren. On the left "The Rotating Square In and Out of the Frame" we see that he uses the simplest form of strips to create movements within frames. In the piece on the right "The Missing Square", Buren has taken his strips in frames to create a puzzle-like effect, and the way I see it, he also seeks an active involvement from the viewer. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
One might argue the legitimacy of painting being the medium to question the making of art. Here I would like to put the emphasis on seeing how painting opens beyond itself by virtue of the limits that define it and onto a field it reveals as both relational and contingent, exposed to, and so capable of exposing, the institutional and cultural limits within which it claims its presence.
- - - - - - - - Slide7 Wall of Paintings by Buren - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-Daniel Buren. Murs de peintures, 1966–1977. Musée d'art moderne de la Ville de Paris -(Flikr: Beair)
Buren's idea that "every act is a political one*2" applies here as a response to the minimalist’s requirement of maximum space in between the works. Here the paintings are hung in the style as if they were in the 19th century, and each work requires equal attention.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - Slide8: Accidental Buren - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
(Flickr: Beathe)
Buren's interest in the physical components of the work, such as its surface and support, lead to the exploration of material and ideological aspects of artworks that are usually not visible, revealing what conventional paintings tend to hide. He treats painting itself as the subject of painting, and what he's done here is taking his stripes and displacing them in a non-art context.
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- - - - - - - Slide9: Palais Royal, Paris - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-Daniel Buren, Les Deux Plateaux , 1986. Palais Royal, Paris-
(Flickr: robert_562)
This in situ work was done in 1986 in the great courtyard of the Palais Royal, in Paris: "Les Deux Plateaux", more commonly referred to as the "Columns of Buren". This work provoked an intense debate over the integration of contemporary art and historic buildings during that time.
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- - - - - - - - - - - Slide10: Place des Terreaux, Lyon1 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-Daniel Buren. in situ Place des Terreaux (1992, Christian Dreve). Lyon, France-
(photo: hsiaohui)
He is known best for using regular, contrasting maxi stripes to integrate the visual surface and architectural space, notably historical, landmark architecture.
(Christain Dreve is the architect)
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- - - - - - - - - - - Slide11: lace des Terreaux, Lyon2 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
(photo: hsiaohui)
His signature stripes of 8.7cm in width coloured and alternative white work as an expansion of the act of looking. The stripes ultimately did not reduce the meaning of the work, instead led to an expansion of the ability to see within the field of the visible. In this sense, Buren's practice has always involved a particular approach to the physical environment and context.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - Slide12 Time of a Work, Lyon - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-Daniel Buren. Le Temps D'une Oeuvre , 2005. Musée d'art contemporain de Lyon, Biennale de Lyon d'Art Contemporain-
(Flikr: dalbera)
This piece explores the collaboration with light, thus space and time. Each day the gallery attendant would take off random coloured pixaglas to reveal the original lighting of the exhibition space. This may seem like a work done by a different artist, yet we can still see that he's incorporated his stripes in this work.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - Slide13 Tours - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-Daniel Buren. Plus grand ou plus petit que ? 2006. Château de Tours, France-
(Flickr: zokapi)
Here that's another example of an exhibition that I've been to. In this slide we see the exterior of a castle in the city of Tours.
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- - - - - - - - - Slide14, 15, 16: Interior - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-Daniel Buren. Plus grand ou plus petit que ? 2006. Château de Tours, France-
(photo: hsiaohui)
The interior, ground, first, and second floor.
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We see with the later works that Buren has incorporated the idea of inside-outside into his practice. Yet all his works, from his unauthorised paper stripes glued on Parisian billboard in the late 60s to his more recent in situ interventions in the public space, discard conventional assumptions about the formal qualities of artworks, and present visual elements that alert the viewer to the characteristics and function of the space.
- - - - - - - - - - - Slide17 Buren's Statement - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
la pratique est tout processus de transformation d'une matière première et la théorie lui est essentielle; la théorie est une forme spécifique de la pratique, s'en distinguant par son caractère scientifique.
It must be clearly understood that when theory is considered as producer/creator, the only theory or theoretic practice is the result presented/the painting or, according to Althusser’s definition "Theory: a specific form of practice."Buren's interest in the physical components of the work, such as its surface and support, lead to the exploration of material and ideological aspects of artworks that are usually not visible, revealing what conventional paintings tend to hide. He treats painting itself as the subject of painting, and what he's done here is taking his stripes and displacing them in a non-art context.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - Slide9: Palais Royal, Paris - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-Daniel Buren, Les Deux Plateaux , 1986. Palais Royal, Paris-(Flickr: robert_562)
This in situ work was done in 1986 in the great courtyard of the Palais Royal, in Paris: "Les Deux Plateaux", more commonly referred to as the "Columns of Buren". This work provoked an intense debate over the integration of contemporary art and historic buildings during that time.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - Slide10: Place des Terreaux, Lyon1 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-Daniel Buren. in situ Place des Terreaux (1992, Christian Dreve). Lyon, France-
(photo: hsiaohui)
He is known best for using regular, contrasting maxi stripes to integrate the visual surface and architectural space, notably historical, landmark architecture.
(Christain Dreve is the architect)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - Slide11: lace des Terreaux, Lyon2 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
(photo: hsiaohui)
His signature stripes of 8.7cm in width coloured and alternative white work as an expansion of the act of looking. The stripes ultimately did not reduce the meaning of the work, instead led to an expansion of the ability to see within the field of the visible. In this sense, Buren's practice has always involved a particular approach to the physical environment and context.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - Slide12 Time of a Work, Lyon - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-Daniel Buren. Le Temps D'une Oeuvre , 2005. Musée d'art contemporain de Lyon, Biennale de Lyon d'Art Contemporain-(Flikr: dalbera)
This piece explores the collaboration with light, thus space and time. Each day the gallery attendant would take off random coloured pixaglas to reveal the original lighting of the exhibition space. This may seem like a work done by a different artist, yet we can still see that he's incorporated his stripes in this work.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - Slide13 Tours - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-Daniel Buren. Plus grand ou plus petit que ? 2006. Château de Tours, France-
(Flickr: zokapi)
Here that's another example of an exhibition that I've been to. In this slide we see the exterior of a castle in the city of Tours.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - Slide14, 15, 16: Interior - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-Daniel Buren. Plus grand ou plus petit que ? 2006. Château de Tours, France-
(photo: hsiaohui)
The interior, ground, first, and second floor.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
We see with the later works that Buren has incorporated the idea of inside-outside into his practice. Yet all his works, from his unauthorised paper stripes glued on Parisian billboard in the late 60s to his more recent in situ interventions in the public space, discard conventional assumptions about the formal qualities of artworks, and present visual elements that alert the viewer to the characteristics and function of the space.
- - - - - - - - - - - Slide17 Buren's Statement - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
la pratique est tout processus de transformation d'une matière première et la théorie lui est essentielle; la théorie est une forme spécifique de la pratique, s'en distinguant par son caractère scientifique.
Louis Althusser, « Pour Marx »
Daniel Buren
5 Texts. New York: John Weber Gallery, 1973
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There is freedom in what Buren has done, and that enormous freedom comes from an utter understanding of the limits of painting. I see imposing limitations as a method of working, as opposed to not knowing them, and thus not dealing with them. For that the limitation is the condition for painting's connection with the world, so also for its critical force. (As Painting, 87)
The reason why I want to explore the genre of painting is that I see a positive relationship between critical theory and the practice of painting, and have witnessed painting's capacity to reconsider its own structure. Many artists like Buren have experimented painting within their own institutional and cultural contexts; and I believe within the contemporary context, there are issues to be explored.
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Notes
- Huber Damisch writes Pollock (1959): "The invention takes place, at the decisive moment when the painter raised this process, dripping - which after all had been only a means of 'padding' (remplissage) - to the dignity of an original principle for the organisation of surfaces."
Damisch, Hubert. "La figure et l'entrelacs," Fenêtre jaune cadmium, ou les dessous de la peinture. Paris:Editions du Seuil, 1984. 76 - "All acts are political, and whether one is conscious or not, the presentation of one's work/production does not escape this rule"
Buren, Daniel. "En Regard," Les Ecrits, Tome3. Bordeaux: CAPC, 1991. 208-9
- As Painting: Division and Displacement. Ed. Philip Armstrong, Laura Lisbon, and Stephen Melville. Columbus: Wexner Center for the Arts, the Ohio State University, 2001.
- Melville, Stephen. "Counting/As/Painting." Philip Armstrong, Laura Lisbon, and Stephen Melville. 1-26
- Philip Armstrong and Laura Lisbon. "As Painting: Problematics." Philip Armstrong, Laura Lisbon, and Stephen Melville. 27-54
- "Daniel Buren." Philip Armstrong, Laura Lisbon, and Stephen Melville. 86-9
- Nadaner, Dan. "Painting in an Era of Critical Theory." Studies in Art Education vol.39 no.2 (Winter 1998): 168-82
- Crimp, Douglas. "The End of Painting." October vol.16. 1981: 69-86
- Buren, Daniel. 5 texts. New York: John Weber Gallery, 1973. (FA 759 B952)
- ---. Reboundings: An Essay by Daniel Buren, Followed by 7 Plates and & Diagrams. Brussels: Daled & Gevaert, 1977. (FA 759 B952r)
- DANIEL BUREN, Plus grand ou plus petit que ?, travail in situ, au château de Tours pour le 25 ème anniversaire du CCC.
- Le musée qui n'existait pas, Centre Georges Pompidou, Paris 2002
- Rencontre à l'atelier, FIAC 2000
Libellés : claude.viallat, critical.theory, daniel.buren, donald.judd, hui, jackson.pollock, louis.althusser, michel.parmentier, niele.toroni, olivier.mosset, peinture, polly.apfelbaum
posted by hsiaohui @ 18:40
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